This wonderful debate started with an innocuous blog post about Christmas. I did not get it perfectly in order and the full blog post can be found here. http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/25/my-christmas-message/#comment-797422
sk1951 says:
Thanks Flash man:
TRIVIA: CHRISTMAS STARTED IN 400CE
Rome adopted Christianity around 300CE. The convergence from the Pagan religions to Christianity included inventing Christian Holidays to coincide with Pagan holidays. Christmas was one of these inventions. At first, both holidays were celebrated as one to avert war and civil unrest. The church had Christmas mass and the Saturnalia was celebrated at home.
With the invention of a God man Jesus came the religious invention of his birth day. Because there is no record of his birth day in the two different stories in Mathew and Luke it was decided that the Pagan day of December 25 would be used to over shadow the Pagan Dec. 25 holiday.
With time the church religion through sheer force, violence, threats and death, pushed out the Pagan holidays all together leaving only the Christian holidays. The term “pagan” was adopted to mean “godless” or “heathen” by the Christians and of course they had to convert or be exterminated.
Not that marry of a Christmas for the peace loving pagans of past or present of their winter solstice holiday “Sol Invictus” “Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun,” on darkest day of December 25.
sk1951 says:
Vicki: Autogenesis whether by a man God or by Spirit (as I believe) or simply nature…yes…it was created by nothing. But nothing is now known to comprise over 95% of all we cannot see…but has mass and energy. It is what is forcing the Universe to expand faster. Well…this is getting into science and that does not fair well with the religious that are not interested in knowledge.
From The Nag Hammadi: First lines first Book of the Egyptians:
1. “The holy book of the Egyptians about the great invisible Spirit, the Father whose name cannot be uttered, he who came forth from the heights of the perfection, the light of the light of the aeons of light, the light of the silence of the providence the Father of the silence, the light of the word and the truth, the light of the incorruptions, the infinite light, the radiance from the aeons of light of the unrevealable, unmarked, ageless, unproclaimable Father, the aeon of the aeons, Autogenes, self-begotten, self-producing, alien, the really true aeon”.
Frank Kahn says:
First of all, dark matter and black holes are two different things, there might be dark matter in black holes but black holes are not the containers that are theorized.
You are attempting to argue the non (not none) existence of something that exists. It is the exact same argument as God. If nothing exists, then God (Spirit) does not exist. You cannot have it both ways. It is a conceptual paradox which cannot be resolved using the terms exist or non existence. The word NOTHING represents a superlative meaning that there is a lack of anything.
You are talking about God, you just give it another name.
sk1951 says:
My use of nothing was proper in its context. I was not referring to dense black hole dark matter. I was speaking of the theoretical “nothing” or none existence of anything becoming something, nothing. It makes no sense to apply logic and reason to this topic. This is the world of Spirit.
Frank Kahn says:
I am not certain you understand the quote in your post but I will leave that for another time.
You state:
“But nothing is now known to comprise over 95% of all we cannot see…but has mass and energy. It is what is forcing the Universe to expand faster. Well…this is getting into science and that does not fair well with the religious that are not interested in knowledge. ”
Now, sk1951, there are some obvious errors in that quote from your post.
First, there is a grammatical problem that is produced by the lack of commas. Are you saying that “nothing is known about what comprises 95% of the Universe” or “it is known that there is nothing in 95% of the Universe”?
Since you make the fallacious statement that it has mass and energy, neither of those can be true.
By the way I am religious and I am about to cut your science to ribbons.
I was happy that you claimed a scientific basis to your statement, although it is wrongly stated and incorrect in its assertion.
There is, in fact, a theory of something called dark matter, which is hypothesized as a contributing factor to the orbital mechanics observable in spiral galaxies. Now for these galaxies to exhibit their shape in a constant behavior, there needs to be some hidden gravitational source which keeps them in place. Otherwise, the extreme speeds necessary, for the stars on the outer rim of the galaxy (like our sun in the milky way) to traverse the distance required to orbit the center, would result in them breaking free from the gravitational pull of the center of the galaxy (something known as escape velocity).
Now, while little is known about this mysterious dark matter, it is generally agreed that it is a high gravitational matter which instead of accelerating the expansion, would slow it down. What is currently being discussed is whether or not there is enough dark matter in the universe to make it a closed Universe (expanding and contracting) or an open universe (continual expansion). I will have to recheck my sources to see if the 95% you state is consistent with ratio of visible to dark matter for a closed universe.
Oh, and by the way, everything that has mass has energy, but your statement was false because you said we dont know about it. And you are obviously wrong that religious people have no use for science, and that we dont seek knowledge.
sk1951 says:
Did you mean dont or don’t? LOL. You don’t get it. I can only reiterate what I already said…logic will fail in understanding the two nothings. And since no man has nor will he ever answer this question it is illogical for you to attempt to explain to me the answer. This illogical nature opens the door for religion and delusional beliefs that you have chosen to adopt. I have no more theory to share with you. I wish I did but it is just dog flogging at this point. Thanks Frank. If you need to win…OK…you win.
Frank Kahn says:
I am not trying to win anything, I am trying to get it straight. What you talk about is a riddle. I have even taken your suggestions on gathering information. The so called god particle is not god, it is a misnomer. The theory behind its existence and its effects on the universe are quite complex. Understanding is minimal at best, we will never know the unknowable. They make a strange statement that sort of goes along with you nothing statement but they are taking energy out of the equation. The boson binds (in effect) energy into matter giving it mass.
The something out of nothing is very deceptive, it really does not pose anything as nothing and they use the mystery of it to debunk religion. I will assume it was that message you wanted me to hear.
You said, to deer, that you have native American (whatever that is) heritage. You spoke of your Hopi religion / belief in a way that is somewhat reminiscent of the Gaea concept. However your belief seems to attribute it to father earth instead of mother earth.
I am seeking understanding of your views and beliefs, I have only corrected you when you appeared to not understand my terms.
sk1951 says:
To me…the sadist thing is that the most powerful of all things is love. Love is the true creator of all things. Yet the church did not trust love enough and decided to rule through fear persecution and murder. This was not and continues to not be correct. Even with thousands of empirical testing the church will not capitulate to love…even thought that is what it professes. Twisted…faith.
sk1951 says:
Frank:
You work to attribute right and wrong to what I say and you say. Projected thought from a view point cannot be wrong. A counter view point therefore can also not be wrong.
Wrong would denote a misrepresentation of fact or law. I don’t believe I have projected any fact or law. I for the most part share what I have learned and enjoy sharing what I think others may enjoy learning. I simply look to expand my already huge wealth of misunderstandings to even higher levels of the irrationals. Pointing out that I am wrong is only an opinion. I truly pay little attention to opinions and in fact find them humorous or irritating but rarely divine profit from them.
“Why is it that a fart only smells good to the emitter? Opinions are like that.” Sk1951
Something or Nothing…it is the ongoing theory that I attempt to point out. The importance to study unseen powers, nothing and the irrationals. It is these questions that raise hypostasis, hypothesis and theory. With each new theory as the new stepping stone, we reach out again to the nothing and irrationals adding information to the theory which moves it up or down the ladder to fact or rejection. If a mind is closed only to law and facts and only working to further support laws and facts, what direction will they go? When a mind steps away to conjecture the irrationals a new theory immerges. It is the study of the unknowing and the nothing that is important to discovery and adding more proof to facts. Can we prove that everything started with something? Can we prove everything started from nothing? These questions are of the irrationals…but that does not invalidate nor negate their power and importance. Without the irrationals the steps would never happen. Irrational conjecture, hypothesis, theory, fact, law. There are many things that cannot be empirically tested so they will ever remain unknown or nothing in fact. The more I learn about what I don’t know or can never know, the deeper my level of understanding and enlightenment grows and the more open and accessible I become to Spirit.
You question God and Spirit again. Your claim is that they are basically one and the same in reality and in description. That is your belief. This is a place we are Universes apart, unless you are saying that your God is 100% disjoined from religion or religious definition. Then yes…they are the same if you want.
However!!!…I use the term Spirit because this was the first name used to describe the Universal Mind and Life Force found in original ancient writings and from these writings came; Gods and Bibles invented by man, used for religion. The common knowledge today is that if you believe in “God” than you also believe in and support religion. God is of and from religion and this is most certainly true.
Therefore I use the term Spirit to make sure that the distinction of my faith is clearly defined. I do not have a belief in a Christian invented religious fundamental Bible defined God or a God of my invention. So when you pose “You are however fatally wrong in your assertion about what you believe.” I strongly counter most strenuously with “yes I do know what I believe.” I hope I did not scare you by being so forceful there!
There is no “He” there is no “It” there is no “I AM” no religiosity or books or Christian calisthenics or bodies to eat or blood to drink or shrines to visit and pray to or holy virgins or silver and gold cities in the sky or evil pitch fork demons to fight or friary pits of hell to jump over no Gods that claim to do everything but never do anything no jihadist wars…there is only “IS”. You look inward not outward to a heaven. These are just a few differences. If you still choose to call this a religion…OK FINE! *s*
You hypothecate that you don’t know any Christians that are irrational enough to believe the Bible stories as literal. I find it ironic or moronic that you so easily believe that you know what everyone is and believes and apparently can even speak for God. But if they do not believe fundamentally that makes them Biblically God agnostic and not Christian. You either believe in the literal word of God and the mythical stories or you do not. There is only one line in the sand to pass over. You either support and believe the delusion or you don’t. You appear to conjecturing a multitude of beliefs that there are many levels of religion religious belief and God entities but there can be only one true fundamental Christian belief. If they divide their own personal theories about a personal higher power that would make them an AA member of the lower religious churches.
I think personal beliefs are what it was supposed to be anyway and I would be happy if everyone felt that way. I mean what does it matter who is inventing Gods? Just cuz some old guys did it…does that make there God any better than the ones we can invent today? One on one contact of the inner Spirit is where I am conjecturing from. But maybe like gold…god is where you find it and to each his own. But none of this is going to make a Fundie happy. I know if I invented a God he would be laughing at all this none sense. But man made Gods don’t seem to have much of a sense of humor because most Christians don’t either.
You ask what are my damages from religion personally? To explain I have to define my Religious Supremist: One religion one belief supremacy. Any person not of their belief is moraly, ideologically and intellectually inferior, too uneducated and stupid to realize that God is real. Morality may only be attained thru their perfect belief in God. Fundamentalist. The Bible is the undisputable infallible literal in mythology and word given directly from their God. Their God the only God there is in the Universe. The world is static by design and God created. Any person not with God is a mortal enemy and should be treated as such. Everyone is welcome to beg forgiveness and join their religious cult. A belief that the irrational is rational, therefore reality and fact; which proves the existence of God; because it is written in a book.
Today…my damages and the suffering every rational thinking person is having to deal with every day is the onslaught of religious bigotry, supremistism, sanctimoniousism holier than thoughism, smug faces and attitudism. You ask how I expect to gain respect from them? There is no way that any rational thinking person will. Their religion will not allow it. The religious only have respect for themselves and no one else…PERIOUD. I will hold my comments about how you have damaged me personally.
I HATE BULLIES and liars; and that is all that religion has ever been. My damages long term are: What if religion had never happened and the sum of the world knowledge had been built on this last 2000 years instead of being burned or neutered. What if some of the greatest minds to have ever lived had not been murdered or alienated from society. What if there had been no holocausts of past and present…what would the world and my life be truly like today?
I’m angry for every person including the Fundies but especially for the people that have suffered the horrible brain washing and religious delusion of mythological belief in religion. What would it be like if I had not fallen into the trap and suffered half my life in religiosity and now suffer the long term effects of cult purging that you can never totally heal from?
I’m spending way to much time on these answers. That is stoopit.
Frank Kahn says:
You make an interesting differentiation between Spirit and God. You speak about metaphysical when speaking of religions but don’t attribute it to your belief in a Spirit? In the context of your post, I assume you are taking the incorrect definition of metaphysical as being outside of physics (the true meaning is beyond the basics like cosmology, how things work together in a complete way). In my assumption, Spirit would fit the metaphysical category, since a Spirit is outside of the physical (physics) being.
Usually, when a true Christian differentiates between a BELIEVER and a NON BELIEVER, they are referring to the belief in Jesus as the Christ (savior). Now, this forwards the proposition that only through accepting Christ can you be saved and be welcomed into Heaven. It does not tell us to think badly of those who deny this truth, it only tells us that they will not receive the gifts of God. This might lead us to pity you for your loss of these gifts, but should in no way push us to belittle or degrade your position, the authority to judge is given to God alone.
The only true problems that arise from the belief in God come from the actions of non believers who would blaspheme or tout the “virtues” of behavior that is spoken against by him. We are supposed to LOVE all Gods children for they too might be saved. This is a wish of good will towards the non believers not a condemnation. It is an act of Spiritual Love and Kindness.
It also requires us to be tolerant of others with different beliefs and to learn the truth in their system. I read about many here that speak bad of all Muslims because of the works of a small minority of them. This is wrong no matter how you look at it, it is even very close to violating the “Judge not lest ye be judged” warning in the scriptures. I seem to recall a reference to the phrase “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, which reminds us that we are all capable of committing sin and should not judge the sins of others.
You are not guilty of it here, but there are some that constantly ridicule Christians for their beliefs. To those people, it is often hard to avoid responding with the same ridicule. Tolerance is somewhat like respect, it is a two way street, you must have tolerance to receive tolerance.
Frank:
You question and seek to understand my Spirit. That is a very good question and one that I am in a constant state of questioning and learning of myself. But because I am ignorant enough to keep trying to explain I will once again open myself up to ridicule.
I think that the boson was named the “GOD” particle because they have viewed what appears to be a lab invented creation event. The theory of particles “popping in an out of existence” can also be viewed as simply being created and dyeing…but in a very short life cycle. So here again…even in plain view of a “happening” the arguments of “what just happened” or the “not knowing” continue. Don’t you find that wonderful? I know through my living experiences that it takes time to embrace the not-knowing and the power of nothing but it can and will happen if a person will truly seek for it.
You are asking: Why Spirit and not Religion and God? Why not simply be agnostic or atheist and forget about the whole thing? I was born into the church of Christ religion of Lutheranism (a catholic belief.) I was trained to be a part of the hierarchy, schooled and a minister in training. Let me attempt to share a bit of what I think religion, belief and faith are. These are EXTREAMLY ABRIVIATED explanations.
FAITH: in Spirit: is benign. There is no condone or condemn. It is peaceful and quite. Serine in many ways. Comforting. There is no religiosity violence, rules or law, religious bigotry or judgments of others. There is no superiority. You have nothing to share with others other than yourself. You can’t share your Spirit because everyone already has Spirit exactly as you do. Spirit simply IS. Spirit has no needs nor demands ANYTHING. Your morality comes from knowing Spirit. The stronger the bond with Spirit the farther away you are repelled from the negatives of human life and the desires of the world. The abhorrence of abominations come from inside you. Spirit is a form of self-governing of the highest magnitude. You become moral in Spirit. There is NO question in your mind of Spirit. It is a knowing of Spirit…not a belief.
“If belief or opinion were fact…they would not exist.”Sk1951
BELIEF: in religion: is a strong warrior form of denial of anything other than what the religion allows you to believe. You turn away from anything of earth or anything of science and are in a constant state of readiness to confront anything that appears to challenge your belief. You become extremely defensive and confrontational. None trusting of anyone that is not of your belief. Condoning or condemning each person, their actions and situations you encounter.
“Belief has a duality of good and bad where delusion is only bad. Delusion is the evil twin of imagination.”Sk1951
RELIGION: in God: is an all-encompassing live your life for God and the self-sacrificing Jesus; program of religiosity. The Bible must be believed as the absolute unconditional true word of God himself. God CANNOT be questioned or challenged or blasphemed. The story of Jesus, the cross and the blood the most humbling, inspiring and condemning of all stories ever told. It is a slow transformation of your heart and soul into living only for God and Christ. Your perfection in Christ can never be achieved because you are a flawed inherently evil, born in sin entity. You are unworthy of the blood but it was given to you because God loves you in spite of your lowness. You give yourself away body and soul and become something other than yourself. You become and are the body of Christ. You ARE the church. You ARE the religion. You marry Jesus Christ and become faithful only to him. You ARE NO LONGER yourself. You MUST BE “BORN AGAIN” in the blood of Jesus. Yourself, is turned away and denied in your life. Your body a haven for evil that must be constantly cleansed with the life blood of Christ. You are the temple home for God and Jesus. And for all this, you only have to tithe 10%! Or truly trust God and give it ALL away…your choice…depending on how guilty and unworthy you feel.
“If a loving God truly existed…hell truly would not.”Sk1951
You say some of my words are riddles and can’t be understood. This is the point I am attempting to guide others too. What cannot be understood is the key to the door of Spirit. We are arriving at the not knowing together. The great riddle and misery of the great emptiness of nothingness. The true and real place of creation.
Let me speak to you totally from my Spirit and you will see just how none understandable this gets: We are the all not knowing seeking the all-knowing. Knowing is hidden within the not knowing. The greatness of emptiness and nothingness and not knowing is the true science and inner faith of Spirit. Ours is the journey…not the destination. True Spirit cannot be captured in words or put in a book and cannot be formed into language. True enlightenment only comes from within and will never be found any place else. Wonderment…is the true nature of man. Curiosity the fuel to continue. You need not seek what is already inside you. Your greatness is assured by accepting your Spirit powers. Spirit is the great nothingness that is everything that we seek to find. Spirit casts no judgments nor issues rewards. The reward is in living in harmony with Spirit vibrating in tune with the Universal Mind that is Spirit.
When we arrive at a place where these kinds of confounding assembled words only make us smile because it reminds us of the struggle we so valiantly fought to arrive at the door way of Spirit awareness …then we will understand that which we “do not know” or understand. The great emptiness of nothing becomes all. Understanding is no longer relevant. Awareness, realization and acceptance of truth is all there is. All feelings of anxiety and fear fall away. You find peace. At this point true study and learning can commence. Everything you thought you knew become akin to a child’s toy. You have truly arrived at the “not knowing.”
You are still confused by my feelings about religion? Truly…with all my heart, soul and passion I tell you that man-made gods and religiosity keep hidden the path to the door way… through the promise of it. Religion is made to entrap men’s souls into delusion, there by controlling their bodies and minds to use their pain, suffering and sacrifices to make the few more powerful and rich. Men of good conscience do unspeakable inhumanities to man in the name of a religious man invented GOD. What can be a greater example of paradoxical or oxymoronic than this human(?) behavior? Religion, through thousands of years of empirical testing, has PROVEN itself to be the greatest and long lived deception the world of man has ever endured. I have seen and lived in the devils lair…and it is truly the Catholic Church of Christ and all its many decedents. The most beautiful of structures and the most horrific tools of torture belong to the Churches of God. Churches and tools of torture are creations made to aw and inspire and to strike the most horrible of fears in the heart of man. They stand as mausoleums of death and destruction of humanities body and souls in the name of power, greed and control. The quest for ever increasing riches the true sign of the cross.
Truly…no one is in the same place of God belief. Each person has questions. So there are as many gods and religions as there are people attempting to define their beliefs.
“DELUSIONAL BELIEF: THE WORLDS GREATEST THREAT TO HUMANITY” sk1951
Thank You Frank for stimulating me to go into myself today. This days writing have proven to be most inspirational and inspiring to me. Much of what I write comes as a shock to my eyes as it appears on paper (or screen). There have been times in my life when my Spirit became too heavy and the learning too much for me and I have turned away. I have literally screamed “I don’t want to know anymore!” But I always come back and seek for more and each time the enlightenments come at an even faster pace. A bit masochistic in some ways I suppose but the enlightenments are too exciting to turn away from.
I only hope that my weak feeble attempt to clarify my confusing confounding points [pointless?] of view…even if you now may more easily reject them and me…worked.
Good or Bad or is it the obverse? Intentions can be construed or miss-construed as one for the other. Perception and judgment shapes each personal reality. When intentions; that are meant for the good; are rejected… it hurts. But then that is the challenge is it not?
“Truly I wish I could abolish belief and opinion because so many think, what they think, is in fact, fact.”Sk1951
Well if you got this far I may as well freak you out with this tidbit of news so you are heavily armed with “whack job” slanders to discount me with! *s* It’s OK…I’m very use to it and I understand it. I find insults humorous today. A good laugh is always good…even if at my own expense! But many insults only show me how horribly deluded, irrationally selfish self-centered and rude some people are. That I find very sad.
So what truly are our truth detectors? Truth raises bumps on the skin and excites our Pineal gland producing natural DMT, this in turn produces a grand euphoric feeling (nirvana) that something wonderful and profound has been found or truth heard. These discoveries produce long lasting feelings of peace and security. Your body, soul and heart will tell you if it is true and real.
Fight or flight, rage and anger comes from threats, deceit and lies producing insulin, adrenalin and a host of amino acids. This does not produce euphoria.
Meditation is also said to produce nirvana. As well as chanting or listening to Theta Binaural Beat to tune your brain to the vibrating frequencies found all over the Universe. You will find the lower frequencies help attain mediation while the higher stimulate. Super Nova all have a different beat. Earth has an Alpha 9.6 Hz beat among others. Alpha wave is in everything and may very well be the language of the Universe. The contact is in the wave…like TV. Fun stuff to explore.
So yes…our bodies are connected to Spirit via chemical processes from the “life force” that “we” are seeking to find understanding of…but has been known for thousands of years. Chemicals by themselves do not make us who and what we are. Spirit, this the reason I cannot be Atheist or Agnostic. They believe all that we are is in the chemistry. Our dimension [image] is biological and Spirit. Human Biological life is all about electricity, chemicals and Spirit. We seek to understand the how, why and reason of it.
Wonderment and Curiosity: inherently human.
“Once man turns from belief in governments, religions and gods he will begin to grow again and find that the heathens that believed in Spirit were right all along.” Sk1951
Pineal Gland, DMT, Vatican Secrets ( Pine Cone Symbolism ). This vid a good start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LALNDEYaWk0
Frank:
You question and seek to understand my Spirit. That is a very good question and one that I am in a constant state of questioning and learning of myself. But because I am ignorant enough to keep trying to explain I will once again open myself up to ridicule.
I think that the boson was named the “GOD” particle because they have viewed what appears to be a lab invented creation event. The theory of particles “popping in an out of existence” can also be viewed as simply being created and dyeing…but in a very short life cycle. So here again…even in plain view of a “happening” the arguments of “what just happened” or the “not knowing” continue. Don’t you find that wonderful? I know through my living experiences that it takes time to embrace the not-knowing and the power of nothing but it can and will happen if a person will truly seek for it.
You are asking: Why Spirit and not Religion and God? Why not simply be agnostic or atheist and forget about the whole thing? I was born into the church of Christ religion of Lutheranism (a catholic belief.) I was trained to be a part of the hierarchy, schooled and a minister in training. Let me attempt to share a bit of what I think religion, belief and faith are. These are EXTREAMLY ABRIVIATED explanations.
FAITH: in Spirit: is benign. There is no condone or condemn. It is peaceful and quite. Serine in many ways. Comforting. There is no religiosity violence, rules or law, religious bigotry or judgments of others. There is no superiority. You have nothing to share with others other than yourself. You can’t share your Spirit because everyone already has Spirit exactly as you do. Spirit simply IS. Spirit has no needs nor demands ANYTHING. Your morality comes from knowing Spirit. The stronger the bond with Spirit the farther away you are repelled from the negatives of human life and the desires of the world. The abhorrence of abominations come from inside you. Spirit is a form of self-governing of the highest magnitude. You become moral in Spirit. There is NO question in your mind of Spirit. It is a knowing of Spirit…not a belief.
“If belief or opinion were fact…they would not exist.”Sk1951
BELIEF: in religion: is a strong warrior form of denial of anything other than what the religion allows you to believe. You turn away from anything of earth or anything of science and are in a constant state of readiness to confront anything that appears to challenge your belief. You become extremely defensive and confrontational. None trusting of anyone that is not of your belief. Condoning or condemning each person, their actions and situations you encounter.
“Belief has a duality of good and bad where delusion is only bad. Delusion is the evil twin of imagination.”Sk1951
RELIGION: in God: is an all-encompassing live your life for God and the self-sacrificing Jesus; program of religiosity. The Bible must be believed as the absolute unconditional true word of God himself. God CANNOT be questioned or challenged or blasphemed. The story of Jesus, the cross and the blood the most humbling, inspiring and condemning of all stories ever told. It is a slow transformation of your heart and soul into living only for God and Christ. Your perfection in Christ can never be achieved because you are a flawed inherently evil, born in sin entity. You are unworthy of the blood but it was given to you because God loves you in spite of your lowness. You give yourself away body and soul and become something other than yourself. You become and are the body of Christ. You ARE the church. You ARE the religion. You marry Jesus Christ and become faithful only to him. You ARE NO LONGER yourself. You MUST BE “BORN AGAIN” in the blood of Jesus. Yourself, is turned away and denied in your life. Your body a haven for evil that must be constantly cleansed with the life blood of Christ. You are the temple home for God and Jesus. And for all this, you only have to tithe 10%! Or truly trust God and give it ALL away…your choice…depending on how guilty and unworthy you feel.
“If a loving God truly existed…hell truly would not.”Sk1951
You say some of my words are riddles and can’t be understood. This is the point I am attempting to guide others too. What cannot be understood is the key to the door of Spirit. We are arriving at the not knowing together. The great riddle and misery of the great emptiness of nothingness. The true and real place of creation.
Let me speak to you totally from my Spirit and you will see just how none understandable this gets: We are the all not knowing seeking the all-knowing. Knowing is hidden within the not knowing. The greatness of emptiness and nothingness and not knowing is the true science and inner faith of Spirit. Ours is the journey…not the destination. True Spirit cannot be captured in words or put in a book and cannot be formed into language. True enlightenment only comes from within and will never be found any place else. Wonderment…is the true nature of man. Curiosity the fuel to continue. You need not seek what is already inside you. Your greatness is assured by accepting your Spirit powers. Spirit is the great nothingness that is everything that we seek to find. Spirit casts no judgments nor issues rewards. The reward is in living in harmony with Spirit vibrating in tune with the Universal Mind that is Spirit.
When we arrive at a place where these kinds of confounding assembled words only make us smile because it reminds us of the struggle we so valiantly fought to arrive at the door way of Spirit awareness …then we will understand that which we “do not know” or understand. The great emptiness of nothing becomes all. Understanding is no longer relevant. Awareness, realization and acceptance of truth is all there is. All feelings of anxiety and fear fall away. You find peace. At this point true study and learning can commence. Everything you thought you knew become akin to a child’s toy. You have truly arrived at the “not knowing.”
You are still confused by my feelings about religion? Truly…with all my heart, soul and passion I tell you that man-made gods and religiosity keep hidden the path to the door way… through the promise of it. Religion is made to entrap men’s souls into delusion, there by controlling their bodies and minds to use their pain, suffering and sacrifices to make the few more powerful and rich. Men of good conscience do unspeakable inhumanities to man in the name of a religious man invented GOD. What can be a greater example of paradoxical or oxymoronic than this human(?) behavior? Religion, through thousands of years of empirical testing, has PROVEN itself to be the greatest and long lived deception the world of man has ever endured. I have seen and lived in the devils lair…and it is truly the Catholic Church of Christ and all its many decedents. The most beautiful of structures and the most horrific tools of torture belong to the Churches of God. Churches and tools of torture are creations made to aw and inspire and to strike the most horrible of fears in the heart of man. They stand as mausoleums of death and destruction of humanities body and souls in the name of power, greed and control. The quest for ever increasing riches the true sign of the cross.
Truly…no one is in the same place of God belief. Each person has questions. So there are as many gods and religions as there are people attempting to define their beliefs.
“DELUSIONAL BELIEF: THE WORLDS GREATEST THREAT TO HUMANITY” sk1951
Thank You Frank for stimulating me to go into myself today. This days writing have proven to be most inspirational and inspiring to me. Much of what I write comes as a shock to my eyes as it appears on paper (or screen). There have been times in my life when my Spirit became too heavy and the learning too much for me and I have turned away. I have literally screamed “I don’t want to know anymore!” But I always come back and seek for more and each time the enlightenments come at an even faster pace. A bit masochistic in some ways I suppose but the enlightenments are too exciting to turn away from.
I only hope that my weak feeble attempt to clarify my confusing confounding points [pointless?] of view…even if you now may more easily reject them and me…worked.
Good or Bad or is it the obverse? Intentions can be construed or miss-construed as one for the other. Perception and judgment shapes each personal reality. When intentions; that are meant for the good; are rejected… it hurts. But then that is the challenge is it not?
“Truly I wish I could abolish belief and opinion because so many think, what they think, is in fact, fact.”Sk1951
Well if you got this far I may as well freak you out with this tidbit of news so you are heavily armed with “whack job” slanders to discount me with! *s* It’s OK…I’m very use to it and I understand it. I find insults humorous today. A good laugh is always good…even if at my own expense! But many insults only show me how horribly deluded, irrationally selfish self-centered and rude some people are. That I find very sad.
So what truly are our truth detectors? Truth raises bumps on the skin and excites our Pineal gland producing natural DMT, this in turn produces a grand euphoric feeling (nirvana) that something wonderful and profound has been found or truth heard. These discoveries produce long lasting feelings of peace and security. Your body, soul and heart will tell you if it is true and real.
Fight or flight, rage and anger comes from threats, deceit and lies producing insulin, adrenalin and a host of amino acids. This does not produce euphoria.
Meditation is also said to produce nirvana. As well as chanting or listening to Theta Binaural Beat to tune your brain to the vibrating frequencies found all over the Universe. You will find the lower frequencies help attain mediation while the higher stimulate. Super Nova all have a different beat. Earth has an Alpha 9.6 Hz beat among others. Alpha wave is in everything and may very well be the language of the Universe. The contact is in the wave…like TV. Fun stuff to explore.
So yes…our bodies are connected to Spirit via chemical processes from the “life force” that “we” are seeking to find understanding of…but has been known for thousands of years. Chemicals by themselves do not make us who and what we are. Spirit, this the reason I cannot be Atheist or Agnostic. They believe all that we are is in the chemistry. Our dimension [image] is biological and Spirit. Human Biological life is all about electricity, chemicals and Spirit. We seek to understand the how, why and reason of it.
Wonderment and Curiosity: inherently human.
“Once man turns from belief in governments, religions and gods he will begin to grow again and find that the heathens that believed in Spirit were right all along.” Sk1951
Pineal Gland, DMT, Vatican Secrets ( Pine Cone Symbolism ). This vid a good start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LALNDEYaWk0
It is obvious that you are closed minded and insulting also. You clearly understand that I am one of millions of people that do not believe in a mythological fairy tale God and I have further explained as fervently as possible that organized religion has produced the worst atrocity known to man and I am extremely upset and appalled by it. Yet you write to me with wishes and prayers of religion and a God of war of man-made invention and wish for me to find the error of my ways. This is the problem with separation of believers and none believers. Believers want and demand respect and arrogantly air religious public displays and prayer everywhere. But regard with horror and condescension the none belief of organized religion of others. Where is the fairness and equality in that? Christianity demands respect for principal beliefs but give none in return. I am not “insulting” I only bring facts to light and explain my belief. You may CHOOSE to view my words as insulting simply because they are none supporting of your organized religious belief. But you could also view my words as caring and concerned even thankful for the time and effort I take to bring factual information to the table. You have not given me one instance of respect. You (and all sanctimonious religious) have shown no interest in sharing the responsibility of the then and now of religious jihad and holocaust slaughter. It is the same as those that refuse to recognize that the German Christian supremist holocaust is real and that we must learn from it and do all we can to avoid it from happening again. And religion past and present is all about supremacy and assimilation…this is scary! If there was a true peace loving God…organized religion destroyed him. No…I truly am not personally insulting. Insulting is objective and if I truly have been I fervently apologies because this certainly is not my intent. I truly am not a mean spirited guy and there are many people that love me dearly. But I and all the other millions of none believers have been and continue to be insulted demonized and called amoral. As Frank would say “I can’t be apologetic” just because I do not believe in organized religion or biblical mythology. I admit I write with a very sharp pen. I truly hate the fact that my words may cause hurt or pain. But I have desperately tried for many years to share with believers attempting to find a way to come to an understanding that we must all live in this world together but to no avail. I simply cannot hold back any longer so now I just say it like it is and hope for the best. The time for respect to start going both ways is NOW! To wait any longer is going to cost us ALL dearly in life, liberty and possibly the loss of our Nation. Freedom to believe in religion was not intended to mean the religious have the right to take us over. The Republic stood for equality under the law of the land, not the cross of the church. We will have to get past the arguments of what we DO NOT believe and find some common grounds of what we DO believe before real respect may ensue. I do not write to slander or beat down. But come on…thousands of years of horrible separation and empirically tested atrocities is enough already! The “perceived” war against God and the none believer is a myth. The war of proselytization bigotry and religions racism is not. Have you considered what will happen when Sharia and Islam is a true and real threat to this Nation? Do you think the religious and none religious “Americans” will stand together or will this ridiculous fight allow the true enemy of American freedom to take us over?
Honestly says:
sk1951…Please do not be concerned for us as believers of an Almighty God. Speaking for myself I am VERY comfortable with my beliefs and would not entertain any of the many explanations you have posted on this site. It does sadden me that you believe the way you do but the Word of God explains why you believe the way you do. You have chosen to believe the way you do. That right was given to you by your Creator, the Almighty God. He is such a gentleman that He will not impose Himself on you or anyone else. He gave us the free will to chose Him or ourselves and you have chosen yourself. More than anything I am glad that you posted “I give up”. However, I will continue to pray for you.
Honestly says:
sk1951…It is very obvious that you are not capable of responding without being mean and vicious. That speaks for itself.
sk1951 says:
It is obvious that you are closed minded and insulting also. You clearly understand that I am one of millions of people that do not believe in a mythological fairy tale God and I have further explained as fervently as possible that organized religion has produced the worst atrocity known to man and I am extremely upset and appalled by it. Yet you write to me with wishes and prayers of religion and a God of war of man-made invention and wish for me to find the error of my ways. This is the problem with separation of believers and none believers. Believers want and demand respect and arrogantly air religious public displays and prayer everywhere. But regard with horror and condescension the none belief of organized religion of others. Where is the fairness and equality in that? Christianity demands respect for principal beliefs but give none in return. I am not “insulting” I only bring facts to light and explain my belief. You may CHOOSE to view my words as insulting simply because they are none supporting of your organized religious belief. But you could also view my words as caring and concerned even thankful for the time and effort I take to bring factual information to the table. You have not given me one instance of respect. You (and all sanctimonious religious) have shown no interest in sharing the responsibility of the then and now of religious jihad and holocaust slaughter. It is the same as those that refuse to recognize that the German Christian supremist holocaust is real and that we must learn from it and do all we can to avoid it from happening again. And religion past and present is all about supremacy and assimilation…this is scary! If there was a true peace loving God…organized religion destroyed him. No…I truly am not personally insulting. Insulting is objective and if I truly have been I fervently apologies because this certainly is not my intent. I truly am not a mean spirited guy and there are many people that love me dearly. But I and all the other millions of none believers have been and continue to be insulted demonized and called amoral. As Frank would say “I can’t be apologetic” just because I do not believe in organized religion or biblical mythology. I admit I write with a very sharp pen. I truly hate the fact that my words may cause hurt or pain. But I have desperately tried for many years to share with believers attempting to find a way to come to an understanding that we must all live in this world together but to no avail. I simply cannot hold back any longer so now I just say it like it is and hope for the best. The time for respect to start going both ways is NOW! To wait any longer is going to cost us ALL dearly in life, liberty and possibly the loss of our Nation. Freedom to believe in religion was not intended to mean the religious have the right to take us over. The Republic stood for equality under the law of the land, not the cross of the church. We will have to get past the arguments of what we DO NOT believe and find some common grounds of what we DO believe before real respect may ensue. I do not write to slander or beat down. But come on…thousands of years of horrible separation and empirically tested atrocities is enough already! The “perceived” war against God and the none believer is a myth. The war of proselytization bigotry and religions racism is not. Have you considered what will happen when Sharia and Islam is a true and real threat to this Nation? Do you think the religious and none religious “Americans” will stand together or will this ridiculous fight allow the true enemy of American freedom to take us over?
I have not heard back from Frank but I hope he will post again.
