Dialogue in Truth.
This is one of thousands of encounters I have had with people that claim they are seeking Truth. Anyone interested in helping to define Truth is welcome to help me.
Me: Knowing Truth is a process not an event. Realizing Truth and the duality of the Universe can be considered if you think about yourself and your being. Do you feel like you are your body or do you feel like you live in your body? So many things that we are…are not known or seen or explainable. Those are the things that are connected to the Universal mind…the unseen Universe of Truth Creation and Life. The search for Truth and the powers of the Universe start with self-realization. What is inside you will lead you to the secrets of both the seen and unseen Universe. What can be more exciting than that?
J: Don’t you have a way to simplify what you are saying?
Me: I can but it will still sound confusing at first: Separating big T Truth (the unseen Universe) from little t truth (the seen Universe we call reality) is paramount to discerning Truth and Reality. I call Truth…the power of life and creation…it is a singularity. Truth is the power of our intellect/inspirations and of Universal intelligence of both the seen and unseen. Life is a power that animates all things made by the power of Creation. There is only ONE life force that is shared by all things. Truth Creation and Life are a singularity that forms the Unseen Universal powers. Ironically…to realize the unseen it is necessary to shut off the mind of imagination. You would think it would take more imagination but not so. So…my realizations/inspirations showed me how to separate my imaginary mind from my intellectual mind to experience the inspirations of Truth.
J: Not everyone is ready to hear what you were trying to share. Some comments were unfair to you.
Me: Thanks. I learned long ago not to take it personal. Ignorance or belief when confronted with Truth turns to anger. And believers are angered simply by questioning their belief…that is their only way to protect it. My only agenda is to see man kind move away from the fantasy we live in and into the world of real Truth and Reality…and become true HUMAN kind. I will be long dead…IF…that day ever comes. LOL@ME No…I had a really hard time with what I share too when I was searching!!! It took many years of pain and suffering to rehabilitate from my indoctrinated delusions and fantasy beliefs. There were many that helped me too.
J: Here’s a saying that is fitting, “this world will remain the same, the wise ones share their wisdom and leave.”
Me: I have learned from ancient teachers and masters of Truth that they seek no followers. They supported the strength of the individual and the realizations of Truth. Authoritarians seek or force followers. Here is one of mine: Following does not lead to your happiness…it leads to the happiness of those you follow.
M: Truth is a sad joy….
J: Why sad?
M: Because truly knowing Truth gives you the discernment and intellect to see the true reality and the plight of mankind and that is sad. But it gives you a peace from the horrible lost feelings when you were searching for it…and that is the joy.
J: I’m not there yet, so I can’t speak to that.
M: Well…you keep messing around with finding Truth and you will! LOL This was a huge step for me. May I offer this analogy? https://sk1951.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/critical-thinking-analogy-of-the-imaginary-and-intellectual-mind/
J: It’s a little too deep for me, but I’ll try to digest it in bits and pieces.
M: My suggestion that I share with others is to simply brief read it. Don’t try and understand it. We are touching on the realms of the unexplainable that can’t be known…but that is not true…they can be explained…and we can know Truth…it just takes time. You can do it…
J: I will definitely give it a shot.
M: Cool… Nothing is more exciting to me than someone finding Truth and Reality. When true inspirations begin happening you will know you are on the right track. Make sure to write them down as soon as you can because they are fleeting…they do not come from your brain.
J: You should come share in the other thread I had started today. It is about “is there more to life than we can see.” Share your experience, understanding, knowledge of the unknown.
M: I call that the seen and unseen universe. Quantum is about the Universe of the small. All known physics go out the window at the quantum level. But I focus on Truth as the thing that is unknown. How sad is it that mankind should be so confused about Truth and Reality. Searching but never finding.
J: Wisdom takes time as you know.
M: Wisdom is simply realizing you don’t truly know anything…LOL.
J: Each person has to develop in their own time
M: Each time develops its own person(s). LOL. I don’t do much fantasy analogy anymore. I have moved past the parables. OK…I don’t want to over share. Let me know if you get any Truth from my analogy or if you have any questions about it. I have more…
J: Thank you!
I posted in the other room…
M: Well…I tried… Posting to that string was one of the more wasted efforts I have encountered lately. Move’n on…
J: All we can do is share, the rest is not on us! But don’t preach.
M: Agreed. That is exactly what keeps me going. I do my part…all I can do.
Preaching is finger pointing book waiving verse quoting eternal death and hell fire if you do not submit and believe in ONE god ONE religion racist war mongering authoritarianism. I share what Truth has revealed to me…that is all.
M: You have no idea how it breaks my heart that I can’t find a simple way to share my Truth. Here is a person (you) that seems to be willing and searching for Truth and it seems I can’t help. I’m 30 years into this and I have actually helped maybe 5 people to realize Truth. They were shocked and amazed…as I am still…but we have been blinded to Truth by design. THAT is the first step in knowing Truth. Realizing that you have been program indoctrinated to accept those things that ARE NOT Truth…as Truth.
M: Perhaps if I share my analogy of what Truth IS NOT…will help. https://sk1951.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/what-truth-is-not/
M: I was up half the night thinking about this: How to make it more simple as you asked. I would love it if you could figure out a way to package it in a simpler format. As they say…don’t say in two words when one will suffice. This has been my ongoing dilemma for many years. I start with a few sentences and it always ends up pages long…or book long. So ANY assistance you may bring to the table would be much appreciated.
J: Let it flow from your heart rather than your intellect.
M: Heart is about spirit and nature. Truth is about seeing and understanding nature. This is outside of nature and the heart. It IS pure intellect. That is the point. Truthfully…if you don’t have time to read my analogies then there is no point. I need comments and feedback on them to rework or change them for better comprehension and elucidation. THAT is my goal…to accomplish exactly what you and many others have asked me for…how to simplify. It is hard when working to share something that has been obfuscated as impossible to share or explain.
J: To reach others, I feel, you have to appeal both to their heart and mind, just my humble take in it.
M: THAT… is exactly what I see happening. The two realities become mixed together and everything comes tumbling down. That is my goal…to separate the two so they can be realized for what they truly are…separate and apart. THEN…armed with Truth enlightenment and discernment…a person can then see the seen truth through the mind of Truth. THIS is the point of my intellect and imaginary mind analogy. It sets the beginning frame work to see and validate the true existence of Truth. It’s frustrating…I KNOW!!! This is why it takes a balanced mind and mankind is operating in ONE mind set.
J: I personally have a lot of trouble comprehending when it becomes too abstract, just how I’m wired.
M: We all do…that is why I try to not be abstract. The point is that if you are seeking for Truth in the natural seen world…you will never find it. It exists in and around it…it is inside you. Sounds like god right? It should…that is what the ancients did…they took Truth and invented gods from it. God is Truth…that is the biggest man invented lie ever told.
J: See, now I can grasp it when you state it like that, in conversational language.
M: I”M TRYING!!!! LMAO@ME!! Actually this is very good. One of my favorite books that helped me immensely was called “Dialogues in meta-psychiatry” by Thomas Hora. The book is conversations of question/answer from lots of patients and observers. Perhaps YOU may be the answer I have been looking for. Our dialogue may be the key to unlocking what I so desperately want to share. No agenda other than Truth. NOO new religions or gods!!!! Just Truth.
J: Also there’s desperation in the words, language you’re using, you want people to feel more at ease, not more uncomfortable, if you really want to reach them (just some feedback).
M: How do I do that? People are instantly uncomfortable when someone brings up the subject of Truth. They are programed to shun away from it. Most are afraid of it for good reason…one it has proved to be deadly in the past and two their religion teaches them that “god is truth” so anything I say is from the devil. Actually I wrote an analogy on this very subject. https://sk1951.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/why-are-so-many-people-resistant-to-truth/
J: Your approach is a turn-off, it feels the same as a religious fanatic desperately wanting you to believe what he believes. Although this is not your intent, it translates as that.
M: Same question…what do I change? I feel this conversation coming to an end. This is the way it always is.
J: I’m still giving you feedback, don’t take it personally.
M: I have learned long ago not to take people’s emotions, ego and belief protection anger personally. My discomfort is not for myself…it is for the world that has been deceived and continues to labor under the lies…thinking/believing the authoritarians are Truth.
J: Can I be completely honest?
M: We are talking about Truth…I would expect no less than honesty!!!
J: You have to let go of the need to share this with others and just keep living the truth in silence, and your being will start attracting people to you.
M: Do you realize you are attempting to convert me away from Truth and sharing it? If it was reversed and you had a great truth to say would you not share it?
J: Share it not with your words but through your being, it will be more effective. Just my perspective, you can do what feels right to you.
M: Now who is being abstract? I don’t think my being projects well on the internet. Following me will not help anyone find Truth. I do not seek to attract people to me. That would detract from Truth. That is also a great human failure…they constantly look for saviors or those to follow and authoritarians to oversee and protect them, they dig their own hole then try and get out of it. Knowing Truth allows a person to see through their own weaknesses and stop digging holes!
M: I was attracted to your string like a moth to a flame by your statement of “looking for more” I am attempting to bring that to you and now you are resisting it. THAT is the part that truly interests me. How do we break through that barrier of resistance to Truth?
J: At the end of the day, you have the final say on your approach, others can only share their perspectives, right or wrong.
M: True. One problem is you have not given me a perspective on any of the 4 analogies I have posted for you? Why?
J: Because I’m not debating your realizations, I’m debating your approach.
M: I’m confused? You did read them?
J: I’ve tried, I’m trying… like I’ve told you I struggle with strictly intellectual writing. I don’t think I can read them.
M: EXACTLY my point my man. We have been indoctrinated into a world of fantasy beliefs and can’t discern with a mind of intellect…because we don’t have one! If I try and twist Truth into fantasy all is lost. We need to take one analogy, I suggest the first one I posted and talk about the content. Was there anything in it for you at all? How would you word it differently? Can you rewrite it in your words? This is a process for me too. I am attempting something that has never truly been done before…so you can imagine my frustration. This one… https://sk1951.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/critical-thinking-analogy-of-the-imaginary-and-intellectual-mind/
J: Okay, I need time, I’ll get back to you when I finish going through it.
M: Very cool!!! I have all the time in the world…well no…whatever time I have left in the world! Thanks for helping me! It truly is much appreciated!
J: No problem, I’ll do my best.
M: As much as any of us can do…me too… Thanks.
J: One thing I’m seeing a problem with is equating your truth as the ultimate Truth
M: It is the only Truth in the unseen and it is everyone’s…not mine. That is the point. The seen (t)ruths or truisms are invented by man to explain the seen universe. God is Truth…is the current ultimate Truth…but it alludes that there is a Truth…that is god. That is the lie. Truth is Truth…not god. I assume I need to make the difference/distinction between Truth and truth more clear? Was that a critique on that first analogy?
J: No, I was still talking in general. I have not read it yet.
M: Well…unless you/we get a ground base realization of what I am saying there is no place for me to go here. I can try and explain till the cows come home but it simply takes a more complete analogy than these comments.
J: The best I can accept from someone is two-sided learning process, not just being told what to think, if that makes sense.
M: There is only Truth. There is no side. That is the point I am failing to make.
J: Your approach is not in line with your message, if that makes sense.
M: What approach? I don’t think I have one. I simply share…as you said in the beginning…that is all we can do…and let the chips fall. What message? Are we talking about the analogy? What do you think my approach should be? I’m all ears…and eyes! LOL
J: No I have not read it. Let’s have a conversation on the phone sometime.
M: You can’t read an analogy on the phone either. This is the resistance and deflection I am always met with. There has to be a fear factor involved. I simply don’t know how to get around or correct that. I was asking for your help as much as I was attempting to share my Truth realizations. We have not even made it to the actual point yet.
J: But I can understand your tone and approach better. On the phone.
M: This conversation has been wonderful and helps to explain some of the problems and issues I continue to run into daily….for years and years. Sorry…I am not a public speaker and my tone should not be a deciding point on what is or is not Truth. As I said…I am NOT seeking to write a book or start a religion or amass followers. You are seeking to control and this is a protective reaction/resistance/deflection to Truth…I see it every day. Truth can’t be controlled like human truths or beliefs. I need to figure out how to format my information in a digestible intelligent non emotional elucidating format. I get it if you are not interested. I have yet to find the right person to help me. It may be; that this is a thing that truly is unknowable and impossible to share and explain. I simply am not ready to give up…yet…but I am getting closer to defeat every day. I have no agenda or beliefs to push and this is very confusing because there is nothing to grasp onto. This is about you and Truth. I have no part in that…other than sharing how I came to know Truth. Weird…I know.
J: It’s your call.
M: I gave you all I got… Up2U.
J: If you don’t feel comfortable with it, that’s your call, because online we’re both going in circles.
M: Exactly. The only way I would call would be to talk about the analogies. You questioned if there is more…there is far more than you would ever believe…literally…beyond belief…beyond man and the seen Universe. You have made a choice to ignore the treasures I have brought you. Of course that is sad to me but I am very use to it. I truly ponder if real Truth will ever be known? Obviously it will not be in my life time…that I do know.
J: I’m spending a considerable time trying to communicate with you, but if you feel that anything other than one of your analogies is not worthy of your time on the phone, that’s up to you.
M: I think that is enough for today. Thanks for sharing.
J: Just trying to be truthful like you were.
M: It is not about truthful…that is of the world…it is about knowing Truth. The point of my analogies.
J: The point is, you have not made an effort to find out what my truth is, the only opinion you want to hear from me is feedback regarding your truth, or your claim to know ‘the’ Truth. Even then I’ve been patiently working with you, to somehow connect at a deeper level, but I’m not interested in a conversation where your Truth is leading the way the whole time. It’s not mutually beneficial to me. I am saying this to you out of love, not hate, I’m still attempting to see if we can connect at some level.
M: I don’t have a truth or belief to share. I have Truth realization and how my inspirations enlightened me. Your deflection is noted…you asked for people to bring you “more” and I tried. If you want to share with me what your truth is fine. But that was not how this started…it WAS all about me sharing my reality and Truth. You are on the door step…asking for more… I am trying to show you how I opened the door you are standing in front of. That’s all…nothing more. There seems to be expectations that I am unaware of and will probably fall short of. I only have what Truth IS to share.
J: I was never standing at your doorstep, I am not interested in becoming a follower of anyone’s truth. And on top of that you put a guilt trip on me like I’m trying to control the conversation or have some type of fear, sorry I’m not interested in all that.
M: I said you are standing at the door step of YOUR Truth…not mine. More deflection now degrading to anger. This the way it is when fear of Truth happens. Anger is how believers protect their beliefs. I am now your enemy…because I brought you Truth. As I said…I am very use to this. Nothing can be done about it…that I know of. At least not that I have found. You have defended your beliefs admirably. I have been properly vanquished and dispatched. I feel such guilt and shame.
J: Take care
M: You to…thanks for the time.
J: I still think you had something good to share, it’s unfortunate we weren’t able to connect on a deeper level, but I hope you don’t get discouraged and continue in this path, wishing you well and good luck!
M: I think I will call this; Project: Truth.
M: I don’t give up easily! This is a process not an event. I would like to try and summarize/clarify a few things if I may. There is no perfect path to Truth.
M: Truth inspires emotions. Emotions do not inspire Truth. Real Truth is the power of the ancient Veda and Hindi words of Truth is what they shared. Truth powers the Taoist, Buddhist, Confucius and Zen Masters. Truth gives you the clarity to see truth in nature and mankind. Truth is the power of the Universal mind. It is the unseen power of Creation and Life. Your heart will respond to words of Truth. But our minds are trained to reject it to protect our beliefs. This is the challenge…how to overcome and rehabilitate from indoctrinated deceptions.
M: Truth is the reason Truth masters were murdered and their books destroyed. Truth is what is hidden from you in gods and authoritarian Abrahamic religions that have perverted Truth with lies. God is Truth? No…Truth is Truth. This is why religion creates fear and threatens eternal death to coerce a person into believing in a faults belief. Religion makes mortal enemies of those that share Truth that challenge beliefs. Real Truth is the devil to the believer because faults gods are their Truth and to oppose their belief creates anger and rage even murder and war. Real Truth attracts…it does not need fear mongering. But our indoctrinations drive us away from Truth…but we keep looking…what a quandary this is.
End of conversation. Looks like he was not the answer I was looking for… Move’n on…